Jim Oakes

Welcome to another episode of Heat Treat Radio, a periodic podcast where Heat Treat Radio host, Doug Glenn, discusses cutting-edge topics with industry-leading personalities. Below, you can either listen to the podcast by clicking on the audio play button, or you can read an edited version of the transcript. To see a complete list of other Heat Treat Radio episodes, click here.

Audio: Jim Oakes

In this conversation, Heat Treat Radio host, Doug Glenn, speaks with Jim Oakes from Super Systems, Inc., based in Cincinnati, Ohio. SSI develops and manufactures products for the thermal processing industry, including probes, analyzers, flow meters, controllers, software solutions, and engineered systems. Jim Oakes of Super Systems corrals the data about data and makes sense of its use in the heat treating world, covering topics that include the evolution of data collection, sensor technology, data collection for preventative maintenance, operational benefits of data collection, Super Systems data capture explained, the Cloud and security.

Click the play button below to listen.

Transcript: Jim Oakes

The following transcript has been edited for your reading enjoyment.

On this episode of Heat Treat Radio, we’re discussing data.  If there is one thing that is significantly changed in the Heat Treat world in the last decade, it’s the quantity and quality of data.  What the heck do you do with all the data?  How do you collect it?  How do you decide which data sets the capture and after you capture them, how can you learn anything from them? Data, data everywhere, and not a drop to drink!

Welcome to Heat Treat radio.  I am your host and publisher of Heat Treat Today, Doug Glenn.  Today, we’re going to talk to one of the industries leading authorities on data, Jim Oakes from Super Systems Inc.  But before we do, why don’t you take a little cyber trip over to www.heattreattoday.com and see all the data we have there?  We’ve got aerospace heat treat data, we’ve got automotive heat treat data, we’ve got medical heat treat data and energy heat treat data as well as general manufacturing heat treat data.  In fact, we’re adding at least one new piece of heat treating data every day.  On Tuesday, we publish technical content.  We call it ‘Technical Tuesday.  If you’re a manufacturer within in-house heat treat, we’re pretty sure you’re going to find www.heattreattoday.com really helpful.

Before we get started, here is a word about this episode’s sponsor:  Today’s Heat Treat Radio is brought to you by Dry Coolers, designers and builders of industrial cooling systems and the professional engineering services surrounding those systems.  As a leader in the heat treat industry for decades, they’re located in Oxford, Michigan and supply cooling systems for the aerospace, automotive, medical and energy industries, plus many others.  If you have any industrial cooling needs, call Dry Coolers.  You can find them on the web at www.drycoolers.com or by phone at 800-525-8173.

Doug Glenn (DG):  Let’s get started on today’s topic — data. Our guest is Jim Oakes from Super Systems Inc.  Hi, Jim. Take a minute and introduce yourself to our listeners.

Jim Oakes (JO):  Hi, Doug, this is Jim Oakes with Super Systems. We’re a technology provider for the heat treating industry. We focus on sensors, controls, and software for the thermal processing and heat treating industry, and we’ve been doing that for over 20 years now.

DG:  Jim, how many years have you been in the heat treat industry?

JO:  15 years.

DG:  Over the past 15 years, what impresses you about the way we are using data now as opposed to the way we used it back then?

JO:  Well, a couple things, actually. My introduction to the industry was actually longer ago than 15 years. I started in an internship, and oddly enough, at that internship — it was for a technology provider in the heat treating industry — I was involved in doing data capture from a PLC at a Timken plant in Gaffney, South Carolina, and that was 25 years ago. Data acquisition has been happening not just in the heat treating industry, but in manufacturing for a very long time. What’s really been changing though, if you look at the last 10 to 20 years, is that the technology is lending itself, because of cost, both from a storage standpoint and processing standpoint, to really being accessible everywhere. You have more information that is coming out of microprocessor controls or PLCs or programmable logic controllers throughout the shop floor. Whether it be a piece of thermal processing equipment or a cooler or anything that is on the shop floor, we have tons of information that is becoming available. Before you might have been worried about how you would store all that information, but that is a thing of the past. The amount of information, and actually making sense of all of it, is where the challenge lies today, certainly not collecting it.

The Evolution of Data Collection

DG:  Ten years ago, are you seeing us collecting anything now that we didn’t collect then? Are we collecting more stuff than we were collecting back then, and if so, what are we collecting now that we weren’t collecting before?

JO:  That’s a great question, Doug, because back then a lot of the data was very specific and focused on process-related information. Now, there is additional data that is being collected that can be used for some predictive modeling, if you will. It’s not just proof of process that meets the industry requirements. Your customers were expecting that if you used a heat treatment process, then you had to really prove you performed that. Well, that’s a thing of the past. Of course, any data acquisition system that you have today, or anything data-related is going to provide you with that. But now there is more data, so on any day, in any heat treat facility, captive or commercial, I’d say there are 750,000 to well over a million data points that are being collected. Honestly, most people don’t even know that they’re collecting all that information. Their laser focus is on that one specific requirement. All that information that you can have is coming from these microprocessors or PLCs, so the amount of information today versus what you were gathering way back when is really one of the biggest differences.

DG:  What are some of the technologies that have driven that change so that now we can collect more?

JO:  A couple things. Standardized protocols have been around for capturing data, so you have to have a mechanism to get the data from all of these different pieces of equipment. That’s one piece. It’s existed for a long time. But if you think about it, if you take the shop floor today versus 10 years ago versus 20 years ago, there is a PC everywhere now.  You have a networking infrastructure that exists that maybe wasn’t there 20 years ago. Maybe you had a limited number of people that would be able to absorb that information and utilize it. Today, everyone is using a computer. Everybody is using a hand-held device. Now, all of a sudden, that information is readily available to lots of people, and that’s where the difference is. Not only do you have the networking infrastructure on the manufacturing on the shop floor, but you also have the technology that is available to everybody. Computers are everywhere.

Sensor Technology

DG:  One of the contentions I have is that the reason we’re able to gather so much more data now is that we’ve had advances in sensor technology. Maybe you can address this a bit.  I think there are things we are capturing now that we weren’t even able to capture before because of advances in sensors, whether it be IR sensors, or whatever.

JO: Yes, you’re right, Doug. If you look at the amount of information that is readily available, it is because of the technology that is available to capture it. There is all this sensor technology, whether it’s a limit switch identifying a basket or a tray moving to a specific location, or an infrared device that is used maybe for just measuring temperature on the outside of a furnace shell or an infrared analyzer used for analyzing the gas inside the chamber where the parts are being heat treated. Now you have the ability to take that additional information and use it for a decision making process.

And now you have all this data. Nobody is concerned about the amount of information you’re storing. Nobody ever says, “Well, we’re not going to have that much space.” The problem is people and time in actually evaluating all of the data. No doubt, using a sensor to monitor vibration of a pump or motor, or looking at the current usage, or looking at gas usage — the list goes on of the amount of information you can gather and this is because the cost has gone down. Each of those specific devices are now lower in cost and reasonably achievable from a data capture standpoint.

DG:  We might describe it as to say something like:  In the past, we used to put all the sensors inside the furnace, as you mentioned, to validate the process and things of that sort. It seems now that, because of cost of sensors and things of that sort, the fact that you can gather all this data and actually do something with it now, that we’re getting sensors on the outside of the equipment to make sure not that just the process is validated, but that the equipment is also validated, if you will, so that we can see troubles coming and that type of thing. Do you agree?

JO:  Yes, there is no doubt if you look at some of the benefits of what we see in the heat treating industry today. Of course, operational efficiencies are important. Now you’re taking the data that you’re gathering, again it’s not going to just prove that you’re running the parts properly, but you’re able to make better decisions from an operational standpoint. You can look for better load planning, you can look for reducing time between loads or gap time between loads and identify what’s causing those. The other thing is using this information for preventive maintenance. The equipment manufacturers are doing a great job with providing preventive maintenance programs and it is because of the sensors and the data acquisition systems that you are able to even just locally to that piece of equipment or gather from a plant-wide standpoint. There is no doubt, that some of the biggest benefits are from doing the data capture and then having this different sensor technology that allows for the preventive maintenance programs that can be put into place.

DG:  Isn’t that, in fact, where huge benefits can be gained, in the area of preventative maintenance?

Preventative Maintenance

JO:  Unplanned downtime is a huge cost component in heat treating. Anything you can do to manage the up-time of your equipment is beneficial. Of course, planned downtime gives you an opportunity to work with customers, work with the product that is flowing through your facility as well as managing the incoming parts that you might need for that equipment. So it’s a huge benefit. You can still do preventive maintenance programs that are in place; it doesn’t have to be with new equipment. You just have to be smart about the things that are important to that equipment and then utilize that data. I always say that data acquisition is very underutilized when it comes to maintenance. The maintenance department is usually one of the busiest groups within the thermal processing industry. A lot of domain knowledge goes into the equipment, but they have a lot of this information that is readily accessible to them, so if they could look at this information and anticipate that fan is going to fail, that motor is going to fail, that there is a short on your electrical elements, or whatever that might be, you’re going to be able to plan for the downtime. That’s going to help from an operational standpoint as well as reduce the amount of time that that furnace might be out of commission.

DG:  And when you’re not planning ahead, when you’re responding to fires rather than preventing fires, so to speak, it is usually the maintenance guys who catch the brunt of it.

JO:  Yes, that poor guy walks into work every day dreading work because he’s got a crisis on his hands every single time. If you can prevent that crisis, so he can plan to do something, it’s a totally different work environment.

Let’s take a quick break here and remind you that additional support for today’s Heat Treat Radio episode is being provided by Dry Coolers. If there is one thing we know about thermal processes, it’s that things get hot, and to remove that heat from critical areas, you need a system that is reliable, and if necessary, designed for your specific needs. The fact is, Dry Coolers has been custom designing and providing standardized units for decades, and they have the staff and experience to take care of any of your industrial cooling needs. If you’re a manufacturer with in-house heat treating and you need an industrial strength cooling system, make you first, and only call to Dry Coolers. You can look them up on the web at www.drycoolers.com.

Now let’s get back to our interview with Jim Oakes of Super Systems.

DG:  Where are you seeing data being used well?

Operational Benefits of Data Collection

JO:  The people that are taking advantage of the information are of course meeting the industry requirements. They are staying on top of things like CQI-9 or NadCap requirements from a data collection and meeting the customer requests. That is the foundation. I always say that in a lot of cases, that is a big driver for electronic data. But the people that are really taking advantage of that are using that information for operational benefits. Operational can be both from a maintenance standpoint as well as just improving your overall operations.  You’re looking at, “Why do I have downtime of two hours between loads on this particular piece of equipment?” So now, instead of using somebody to go search the shop for, and walk out and get a paper chart, you now have people that can actually evaluate the downtime between loads. You can look at gap times and identify what the issue is. Is it because I don’t have enough fixtures? Is it because I don’t have enough labor? The labor market is tight right now, so you want to use something that is going to provide you with something to maximize efficiency with what you have. Challenges might be your labor or might be your equipment. Are you making the most of your equipment? You can look at that data. You have tons of information. If you can evaluate that, it gives you an opportunity to make better decisions. That is one area.

The other area is, how can you utilize the data and push that out to all your people. Let everybody look at this, but only give them the pieces of information that are important. The maintenance department is going to be interested in maybe the percent output, the current going to the electrical elements, vibration, or water temperature. That information is relevant and if they could isolate that information, they can sit down with their cup of coffee in the morning and they can evaluate this information. Before they have to react to all the firestorms that they have in front of them, maybe they can actually plan for some preventative maintenance activities based off what the data is telling them. The right information to the right person is really critical. The people that are doing this are the ones that are really taking full advantage of the information that they have with a SCADA package.

DG:  Is there someone out there that is actually doing it?

JO:  Yes, absolutely! There is no doubt about it. People are taking resources, and instead of being reactive and trying to find stuff on the shop floor, they are using the system to identify, answer customer needs and then create those operational efficiencies. People absolutely, no doubt, are taking advantage of that. They are looking at shortening time between loads, notifying users when loads are done so they can get the parts out and then put new parts in. This is happening with mobile devices and/or emails so that the right people are notified at the right times.

DG:  Give us the lowdown on what SSI is doing in this area.

The SSI Data Capture

JO:  Our foundation provides us the ability to provide information everywhere. This starts with the sensor and taking that sensor data into a controlling equipment, whether course microprocessor control PLC. But you need to make that readily available so that people can make decisions quickly. Proof of process is one thing of course, but so is giving access to information, whether by mobile device or a messaging system. So we’re taking all of the information that we’ve already done in the past and providing that into the technology that people are utilizing today. We see huge opportunities from being able to go through the existing data that’s there, and then look at better ways to capture data based off the technology that is becoming available, whether it’s how we capture usage of gas or usage of electricity or just process-related data to make sure that the right person is getting the right information.

DG:  Many of the folks reading this article are manufacturers with their own in-house heat treat plants, and I’m guessing that many of them are wondering what they can do to move in this direction. What should these folks do next?

JO:  First step is to do an inventory of the equipment and be realistic about what data you can get out of them, highlight the drivers, meaning what are your business drivers for capturing that information, and then at that point decide if it is just the infrastructure from a data acquisition standpoint or, if you want to get some bigger bang for your buck, maybe you want to make an investment in some equipment that is technology down at each piece of equipment level, to capture that so that you can realize the gains based off of capturing that information.

DG:  If a company wants to move in this direction, must they go cloud-based?

The Cloud and Security

JO:  No, definitely not. The cloud is a tool that allows basically data and information to be stored externally. The reality is a virtual server in many degrees can potentially be a cloud-based system, but it doesn’t have to be. A large number of the installs we have are storing information locally and then transferring data to the cloud for backup recovery.

DG:  Address cloud-based security, if you would.

JO:  It is a huge topic from a security standpoint and I would say that most of the companies that use the SCADA packages are on-premise. That is not all of them, but most of them are. This means that if you are on premise, you have a private network where it is not accessible from anywhere unless you create that tunnel into that private network using virtual private network. That’s what you refer to as on-premise. Then you have cloud-based system, which is really just pushing that information up to a server form which provides access into it. Of course, there is a security aspect regarding accessing that information. A strategy has to be put forth that prevents external access to that information. In many cases, if you decide that you’re going to go to a cloud-based system, you’ve already thought through that and you’ve probably already transitioned some other systems to that. Anyone that is going to a cloud-based system has some security requirements to prevent any illegal or unwanted access.

DG:  Jim, thanks for your time.

JO:  Doug, thank you for having me on Heat Treat Radio. I really appreciate the opportunity. This topic is important to us here at Super Systems. As a technology provider to the industry, we really like to get the word out there about what types of things are coming, whether it’s making data accessible at the hand-held level, or helping make decisions, it is something that is near and dear to our heart and that is because a lot of our customers really find this necessary. I appreciate you spending the time with me and I really look forward to having discussions around this in the future.

That was Jim Oakes of Super Systems Inc. talking about data and how to get the most out of that data. If you’d like to get in touch with Jim, please email me directly at doug@heattreatoday.com and I’ll put you in touch with Jim. Super Systems can be found on the web at supersystems.com.

Suffice it to say, you will be hearing more from Heat Treat Today about data and how to use it more effectively for your business. To see more heat treat technology articles, go to www.heattreattoday.com. We post a new heat treat item, either a technical article or some industry news, every weekday. If you’d like more Heat Treat Radio, simply Google H”eat Treat Radio”. We’re the first thing that pops up. You can also subscribe to Heat Treat Radio on iTunes or SoundCloud.

One last reminder that today’s episode of Heat Treat Radio was underwritten by Dry Coolers. If you have need for any industrial cooling system, give the good people at Dry Coolers a call.  They are on the web at www.drycoolers.com.

This and every other episode of Heat Treat Radio is the sole property of Heat Treat Today and may not be reproduced without express written permission and appropriate attribution from Heat Treat Today. Jonathan Lloyd of Butler, PA, produced and mixed this episode. I am your host, Doug Glenn.  Thanks for listening.

To find other Heat Treat Radio episodes, go to www.heattreattoday.com/radio and look in the list of Heat Treat Radio episodes listed.